[odf-discuss] Fwd: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship
Position on CDF Makes No Sense
Inge Wallin
inge at lysator.liu.se
Wed Nov 14 02:49:22 EST 2007
On Wednesday 14 November 2007 08:10, Daniel wrote:
> I don't think we want to use that name.
On the contrary, I think we definitely want to occupy that name so that nobody
else can perform anti-ODF actions in its name. If later the name is washed
clean, as it were, a foundation is probably much better than a fellowship.
-Inge
> Gary and Co have completely
> tainted the name "ODF Foundation" and the last thing we need is to be
> associated with that. Many already associate us because, after all, the
> names "Fellowship" and "Foundation" are far too similar and because Gary
> actually used *our* domain when registering with OASIS.
>
> Daniel.
>
> Ryan Singer wrote:
> > David, all,
> >
> > Gary wanted me to let you know that the letters have been sent to the
> > State AG and the IRS to formally dissolve the OpenDocument Foundation.
> > He invited the fellowship to adopt the name at any point in the
> > future for a new venture if it became convenient. He said he'd be
> > more than happy to coach someone on how to gain 501(c)3 status in the
> > US.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2007 8:25 AM, J David Eisenberg <catcode at catcode.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Chris Puttick wrote:
> >>> The Foundation as was is allegedly no more - their front page
> >>> apparently had some message about their being wound-up, but the base
> >>> URL now returns merely a 404. To be reborn the CDF Foundation?
> >>
> >> FYI: I registered the names opendocumentfoundation.com and
> >> opendocumentfoundation.org when they first started up. The names were
> >> about to expire on 6 Nov 2007, and I renewed them. There's no server to
> >> back them up, but I have the names, so they can't be acquired by anyone
> >> with malicious intention.
> >>
> >> > > Chris
> >>>
> >>> On 11/11/2007, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
> >>>> What their strategies are? I think that is clear enough. You would
> >>>> like them to have time to regroup and find better ways to attack ODF?
> >>>>
> >>>> Their current difficulties are self-inflicted. They have attacked not
> >>>> only ODF, not only companies, but individuals. I have some information
> >>>> that has drifted back to me that they are attacking individuals not
> >>>> only in public but in emails privately to those they try to influence.
> >>>> This email that wasn't supposed to be seen, allegedly, is the tip of
> >>>> the iceberg.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's a disgusting smear campaign, frankly, and I hope they cut it out,
> >>>> but whether they do or not, there is zero reason in my view to grant
> >>>> them any room to regroup or to pretend that this should all be hidden.
> >>>> That is how they've been doing so much damage, with private emails to
> >>>> folks that they'd be upset to have made public, I expect, because
> >>>> their effectiveness depends on no one contradicting the smear.
> >>>>
> >>>> For example, this story about W3c backing them up is not true. Period.
> >>>>
> >>>> PJ
> >>>>
> >>>> Ryan Singer wrote:
> >>>>> PJ,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gary and his team are still figuring out where they are going and
> >>>>> what there strategies are. Until they are ready for an announcement,
> >>>>> it is not a discussion to do on a list with public archives.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I understand that many people feel upset and betrayed by the new
> >>>>> direction Gary has taken. I ask that everyone please remember his
> >>>>> years of service as the only non-corporate contributer to the ODF TC.
> >>>>> For years gary had a perfect attendance record, working hard to
> >>>>> protect the communities interests. Please allow Gary and C. the
> >>>>> benefit of a doubt, if only out o respect for everything he has
> >>>>> contributed, for free, on a totally volunteer basis.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Ryan Singer
> >>>>> Co-founder
> >>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
> >>>>> 650-743-2785
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 10, 2007 6:46 AM, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> How about he apologizes and substantiates what he wrote?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's out there. He may not have meant it to be, but it is. And he is
> >>>>>> now responsible to prove his allegations or withdraw them publicly
> >>>>>> in the same venue where they were made.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ryan Singer wrote:
> >>>>>>> I've just found out that gary meant to send this as a person reply
> >>>>>>> to me, and forgot to check the headers to see I had CC'd the
> >>>>>>> fellowship.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Obviously, what Gary intended to write as a private communication
> >>>>>>> to an old friend, in this time when he is getting all of this
> >>>>>>> stressful negative press, is not fit for public or list
> >>>>>>> consumption.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gary asked me to apologize about this and to say that it was not
> >>>>>>> his intention to flame this list. Gary and his team are currently
> >>>>>>> undergoing a very rough time and trying to reposition themselves
> >>>>>>> for the future. Please, lets give the benefit of the doubt to
> >>>>>>> sombody who has done so much work on our behalf.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Ryan Singer
> >>>>>>> Co-founder
> >>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
> >>>>>>> 1-650-743-2785
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 9, 2007 11:50 PM, Gary Edwards <gary.edwards at da-vinci.us>
wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi Ryan,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Chris Lilley's comments are in direct opposition to those we
> >>>>>>>> received a week ago from Doug Shepers, the head of the CDF
> >>>>>>>> Workgroup. doug however asked that we not publicise his comments
> >>>>>>>> until Sir Timothy has had a chance to weigh in. Our CDF support
> >>>>>>>> is solid. Even within Sun and IBM!!!! They've been arguing for
> >>>>>>>> years that CDF is the way to go. Today IBM admitted to us that
> >>>>>>>> ODF is a transitional fiel format only. They know that CDF is the
> >>>>>>>> future, and have spent enormous resources positioning WebSphere,
> >>>>>>>> Lotus Notes, and the Eclipse Community in that direction. ODF is
> >>>>>>>> a transitional desktop play only.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The ODF mob has gone nuts trying to shut off the exits. The worst
> >>>>>>>> thing they could have ever done is attack CDF. Watch. IBM admits
> >>>>>>>> that they lit the fire, and now they can't control the tmob. The
> >>>>>>>> plan was to discredit us personally. Now that CDF is under attack
> >>>>>>>> by the mob, IBM CALLED US, asking for
> >>>>>>>> help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was a two
> >>>>>>>> plus hour phone conference this afternoon. I kid you not.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But hey, thanks for staying on top of this :)
> >>>>>>>> ~ge~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Nov 9, 2007 9:08 AM, Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Forwarded conversation
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship Position on
> >>>>>>>>> CDF
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Makes No Sense
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 8:21 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Earlier in the week, many technology reporters were wrestling
> >>>>>>>>> with what to make of the OpenDocument Foundation's announcement
> >>>>>>>>> that it was abandoning support for ODF in favor of CDF, a W3C
> >>>>>>>>> specification-in-process that few had ever heard of, and no one
> >>>>>>>>> seemed to know much about. Those that did examine CDF were left
> >>>>>>>>> puzzled trying to figure out how it could possibly function as an
> >>>>>>>>> alternative to ODF.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To find out the facts, I interviewed Chris Lilley, the W3C lead
> >>>>>>>>> for the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> CDF
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> project, and his answer couldn't have been more clear: "The one
> >>>>>>>>> thing I'd really want your readers to know is that CDF was not
> >>>>>>>>> created to be, and isn't suitable for use as, an office format."
> >>>>>>>>> In fact, it isn't even an format at all - although it has been
> >>>>>>>>> matched for export purposes with another W3C specification,
> >>>>>>>>> called WICD - but WICD is a non-editable format intended for
> >>>>>>>>> viewing only. Moreover, no one from the Foundation has
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> joined
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> W3C, nor explained to W3C what the Foundation's founders have in
> >>>>>>>>> mind.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It is highly unfortunate that the founders of a tax exempt
> >>>>>>>>> organization that solicited donations, "To support the community
> >>>>>>>>> of volunteers in promoting, improving and providing user
> >>>>>>>>> assistance for ODF and software designed to operate on data in
> >>>>>>>>> this format," should publicly announce that it believes that ODF
> >>>>>>>>> will fail. By endorsing a standard that has no rational
> >>>>>>>>> relationship to office formats at all, they can only serve to
> >>>>>>>>> confuse the marketplace and undermine the efforts of the global
> >>>>>>>>> community they claimed to serve.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Further details are here:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=2007
> >>>>>>>>1109070012244
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As always, please let me know if you would like to be removed
> >>>>>>>>> from this list.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew Updegrove
> >>>>>>>>> Gesmer Updegrove LLP
> >>>>>>>>> 40 Broad Street
> >>>>>>>>> Boston, Massachusetts 02109
> >>>>>>>>> T: 617/350-6800
> >>>>>>>>> F: 617/350-6878
> >>>>>>>>> www.gesmer.com
> >>>>>>>>> www.consortiuminfo.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> *****************************************
> >>>>>>>>> Any tax information or written tax advice contained herein
> >>>>>>>>> (including any
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> attachments) is not intended to be and cannot be used by any
> >>>>>>>> taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be
> >>>>>>>> imposed on the taxpayer. (The foregoing legend has been affixed
> >>>>>>>> pursuant to U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax practice.)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Electronic mail from Gesmer Updegrove LLP, 40 Broad Street,
> >>>>>>>>> Boston, MA
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 02109. Voice: (617) 350-6800, Fax: (617) 350-6878. This
> >>>>>>>> communication is intended only for the use of the individual or
> >>>>>>>> entity named as the addressee. It may contain information which
> >>>>>>>> is privileged and/or confidential under applicable law. If you
> >>>>>>>> are not the intended recipient or such recipient's employee or
> >>>>>>>> agent, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or
> >>>>>>>> disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
> >>>>>>>> have received this communication in error, please immediately
> >>>>>>>> notify Christopher O'Sullivan at (617) 350-6800 and notify the
> >>>>>>>> sender by electronic mail. Please expunge this communication
> >>>>>>>> without making any copies. Thank you for your cooperation.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ----------
> >>>>>>>>> From: Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:01 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship != OpenDocument Foundation. The
> >>>>>>>>> Fellowship does not agree with the new direction the foundation
> >>>>>>>>> has taken. Your subject line mentions the fellowship, while the
> >>>>>>>>> rest of your email is about the foundation. Please send out a
> >>>>>>>>> correction.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
> >>>>>>>>> Co-founder
> >>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
> >>>>>>>>> 650-743-2785
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> _________________
> >>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
> >>>>>>>>> ----------
> >>>>>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:02 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Ryan.Singer at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My sincere apologies - I'll change it immediately.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Ryan Singer"
> >>>>>>>>> < ryan.singer at gmai
> >>>>>>>>> l.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com 11/09/2007 11:57
> >>>>>>>>> cc AM
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subject Re: W3C Lead on CDF says Please respond to
> >>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship Position on Ryan.Singer at gmail CDF
> >>>>>>>>> Makes No Sense .com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> _________________
> >>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> odf-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-disc
> >>>>>>>>>uss
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Gary Edwards
> >>>>>>>> da Vinci Corp
> >>>>>>>> Redwood City, CA USA 94063
> >>>>>>>> (650) 365-0899
> >>>>>>>> (650) 888-2268 c.
> >>>>>>>> gary.edwards at da-Vinci.us
> >>>>>>>> http://da-Vinci.us
> >>>>>>>> http://OpenStack.blogspot.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> odf-discuss mailing list
> >>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
> >>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> J. David Eisenberg http://catcode.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> odf-discuss mailing list
> >> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
> >> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Inge Wallin | Thus spake the master programmer: |
| "After three days without programming, |
inge at lysator.liu.se | life becomes meaningless." |
| Geoffrey James: The Tao of Programming. |
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