[odf-discuss] Fwd: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship
Position on CDF Makes No Sense
Damon Anderson
damon at corigo.com
Wed Nov 14 02:44:39 EST 2007
I quite disagree. The name may have been besmirched, but greater damage
has been done to the ODF community in the process. I think a little
positive press about the ODF community taking back the ODF Foundation
would be a good salve at this point.
-Damon
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:10:51 +0700, Daniel <daniel.carrera at zmsl.com> wrote:
> I don't think we want to use that name. Gary and Co have completely
> tainted the name "ODF Foundation" and the last thing we need is to be
> associated with that. Many already associate us because, after all, the
> names "Fellowship" and "Foundation" are far too similar and because Gary
> actually used *our* domain when registering with OASIS.
>
> Daniel.
>
> Ryan Singer wrote:
>> David, all,
>> Gary wanted me to let you know that the letters have been sent to the
>> State AG and the IRS to formally dissolve the OpenDocument Foundation.
>> He invited the fellowship to adopt the name at any point in the
>> future for a new venture if it became convenient. He said he'd be
>> more than happy to coach someone on how to gain 501(c)3 status in the
>> US.
>> --
>> Ryan
>> On Nov 12, 2007 8:25 AM, J David Eisenberg <catcode at catcode.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Chris Puttick wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Foundation as was is allegedly no more - their front page
>>>> apparently had some message about their being wound-up, but the base
>>>> URL now returns merely a 404. To be reborn the CDF Foundation?
>>> FYI: I registered the names opendocumentfoundation.com and
>>> opendocumentfoundation.org when they first started up. The names were
>>> about to expire on 6 Nov 2007, and I renewed them. There's no server
>>> to
>>> back them up, but I have the names, so they can't be acquired by anyone
>>> with malicious intention.
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Chris
>>>> On 11/11/2007, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
>>>>> What their strategies are? I think that is clear enough. You would
>>>>> like
>>>>> them to have time to regroup and find better ways to attack ODF?
>>>>>
>>>>> Their current difficulties are self-inflicted. They have attacked
>>>>> not
>>>>> only ODF, not only companies, but individuals. I have some
>>>>> information
>>>>> that has drifted back to me that they are attacking individuals not
>>>>> only
>>>>> in public but in emails privately to those they try to influence.
>>>>> This
>>>>> email that wasn't supposed to be seen, allegedly, is the tip of the
>>>>> iceberg.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a disgusting smear campaign, frankly, and I hope they cut it
>>>>> out,
>>>>> but whether they do or not, there is zero reason in my view to grant
>>>>> them any room to regroup or to pretend that this should all be
>>>>> hidden.
>>>>> That is how they've been doing so much damage, with private emails to
>>>>> folks that they'd be upset to have made public, I expect, because
>>>>> their
>>>>> effectiveness depends on no one contradicting the smear.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, this story about W3c backing them up is not true.
>>>>> Period.
>>>>>
>>>>> PJ
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Singer wrote:
>>>>>> PJ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary and his team are still figuring out where they are going and
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> there strategies are. Until they are ready for an announcement, it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not a discussion to do on a list with public archives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand that many people feel upset and betrayed by the new
>>>>>> direction Gary has taken. I ask that everyone please remember his
>>>>>> years of service as the only non-corporate contributer to the ODF
>>>>>> TC.
>>>>>> For years gary had a perfect attendance record, working hard to
>>>>>> protect the communities interests. Please allow Gary and C. the
>>>>>> benefit of a doubt, if only out o respect for everything he has
>>>>>> contributed, for free, on a totally volunteer basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>>> Co-founder
>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
>>>>>> 650-743-2785
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2007 6:46 AM, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> How about he apologizes and substantiates what he wrote?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's out there. He may not have meant it to be, but it is. And he
>>>>>>> is now
>>>>>>> responsible to prove his allegations or withdraw them publicly in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same venue where they were made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Singer wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've just found out that gary meant to send this as a person
>>>>>>>> reply to
>>>>>>>> me, and forgot to check the headers to see I had CC'd the
>>>>>>>> fellowship.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously, what Gary intended to write as a private communication
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> an old friend, in this time when he is getting all of this
>>>>>>>> stressful
>>>>>>>> negative press, is not fit for public or list consumption.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary asked me to apologize about this and to say that it was not
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> intention to flame this list. Gary and his team are currently
>>>>>>>> undergoing a very rough time and trying to reposition themselves
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the future. Please, lets give the benefit of the doubt to
>>>>>>>> sombody who
>>>>>>>> has done so much work on our behalf.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>>>>> Co-founder
>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
>>>>>>>> 1-650-743-2785
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 9, 2007 11:50 PM, Gary Edwards <gary.edwards at da-vinci.us>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ryan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Lilley's comments are in direct opposition to those we
>>>>>>>>> received a week
>>>>>>>>> ago from Doug Shepers, the head of the CDF Workgroup. doug
>>>>>>>>> however asked
>>>>>>>>> that we not publicise his comments until Sir Timothy has had a
>>>>>>>>> chance to
>>>>>>>>> weigh in. Our CDF support is solid. Even within Sun and
>>>>>>>>> IBM!!!! They've
>>>>>>>>> been arguing for years that CDF is the way to go. Today IBM
>>>>>>>>> admitted to us
>>>>>>>>> that ODF is a transitional fiel format only. They know that CDF
>>>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>>>> future, and have spent enormous resources positioning WebSphere,
>>>>>>>>> Lotus
>>>>>>>>> Notes, and the Eclipse Community in that direction. ODF is a
>>>>>>>>> transitional
>>>>>>>>> desktop play only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The ODF mob has gone nuts trying to shut off the exits. The
>>>>>>>>> worst thing
>>>>>>>>> they could have ever done is attack CDF. Watch. IBM admits
>>>>>>>>> that they lit
>>>>>>>>> the fire, and now they can't control the tmob. The plan was to
>>>>>>>>> discredit us
>>>>>>>>> personally. Now that CDF is under attack by the mob, IBM CALLED
>>>>>>>>> US, asking
>>>>>>>>> for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was a
>>>>>>>>> two plus
>>>>>>>>> hour phone conference this afternoon. I kid you not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But hey, thanks for staying on top of this :)
>>>>>>>>> ~ge~
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 9, 2007 9:08 AM, Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Forwarded conversation
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship Position
>>>>>>>>>> on CDF
>>>>>>>>> Makes No Sense
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 8:21 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Earlier in the week, many technology reporters were wrestling
>>>>>>>>>> with what to
>>>>>>>>>> make of the OpenDocument Foundation's announcement that it was
>>>>>>>>>> abandoning
>>>>>>>>>> support for ODF in favor of CDF, a W3C specification-in-process
>>>>>>>>>> that few
>>>>>>>>>> had ever heard of, and no one seemed to know much about. Those
>>>>>>>>>> that did
>>>>>>>>>> examine CDF were left puzzled trying to figure out how it could
>>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>> function as an alternative to ODF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To find out the facts, I interviewed Chris Lilley, the W3C lead
>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> CDF
>>>>>>>>>> project, and his answer couldn't have been more clear: "The
>>>>>>>>>> one thing I'd
>>>>>>>>>> really want your readers to know is that CDF was not created to
>>>>>>>>>> be, and
>>>>>>>>>> isn't suitable for use as, an office format." In fact, it
>>>>>>>>>> isn't even an
>>>>>>>>>> format at all - although it has been matched for export
>>>>>>>>>> purposes with
>>>>>>>>>> another W3C specification, called WICD - but WICD is a
>>>>>>>>>> non-editable format
>>>>>>>>>> intended for viewing only. Moreover, no one from the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation has
>>>>>>>>> joined
>>>>>>>>>> W3C, nor explained to W3C what the Foundation's founders have
>>>>>>>>>> in mind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is highly unfortunate that the founders of a tax exempt
>>>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>>>>> that solicited donations, "To support the community of
>>>>>>>>>> volunteers in
>>>>>>>>>> promoting, improving and providing user assistance for ODF and
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>> designed to operate on data in this format," should publicly
>>>>>>>>>> announce that
>>>>>>>>>> it believes that ODF will fail. By endorsing a standard that
>>>>>>>>>> has no
>>>>>>>>>> rational relationship to office formats at all, they can only
>>>>>>>>>> serve to
>>>>>>>>>> confuse the marketplace and undermine the efforts of the global
>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>> they claimed to serve.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Further details are here:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20071109070012244
>>>>>>>>>> As always, please let me know if you would like to be removed
>>>>>>>>>> from this
>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Updegrove
>>>>>>>>>> Gesmer Updegrove LLP
>>>>>>>>>> 40 Broad Street
>>>>>>>>>> Boston, Massachusetts 02109
>>>>>>>>>> T: 617/350-6800
>>>>>>>>>> F: 617/350-6878
>>>>>>>>>> www.gesmer.com
>>>>>>>>>> www.consortiuminfo.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *****************************************
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>>>>>>>>> attachments) is not intended to be and cannot be used by any
>>>>>>>>> taxpayer for
>>>>>>>>> the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the
>>>>>>>>> taxpayer.
>>>>>>>>> (The foregoing legend has been affixed pursuant to U.S. Treasury
>>>>>>>>> Regulations
>>>>>>>>> governing tax practice.)
>>>>>>>>>> Electronic mail from Gesmer Updegrove LLP, 40 Broad Street,
>>>>>>>>>> Boston, MA
>>>>>>>>> 02109. Voice: (617) 350-6800, Fax: (617) 350-6878. This
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>>>>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>>>> From: Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:01 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship != OpenDocument Foundation. The
>>>>>>>>>> Fellowship
>>>>>>>>>> does not agree with the new direction the foundation has
>>>>>>>>>> taken. Your
>>>>>>>>>> subject line mentions the fellowship, while the rest of your
>>>>>>>>>> email is
>>>>>>>>>> about the foundation. Please send out a correction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>>>>>>> Co-founder
>>>>>>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
>>>>>>>>>> 650-743-2785
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> _________________
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Ryan.Singer at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My sincere apologies - I'll change it immediately.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Ryan Singer"
>>>>>>>>>> < ryan.singer at gmai
>>>>>>>>>> l.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>> Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>>>>>>> 11/09/2007
>>>>>>>>>> 11:57 cc
>>>>>>>>>> AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject
>>>>>>>>>> Re: W3C Lead on CDF says
>>>>>>>>>> Please respond to OpenDocument Fellowship
>>>>>>>>>> Position on
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan.Singer at gmail CDF Makes No Sense
>>>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> _________________
>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> odf-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Gary Edwards
>>>>>>>>> da Vinci Corp
>>>>>>>>> Redwood City, CA USA 94063
>>>>>>>>> (650) 365-0899
>>>>>>>>> (650) 888-2268 c.
>>>>>>>>> gary.edwards at da-Vinci.us
>>>>>>>>> http://da-Vinci.us
>>>>>>>>> http://OpenStack.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> odf-discuss mailing list
>>>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
>>>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> J. David Eisenberg http://catcode.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> odf-discuss mailing list
>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>
--
Damon Anderson, Business Director
Corigo Việt Nam
391B Lý Thường Kiệt
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Hồ Chí Minh City, Vietnam
Mobile: +84 90 834-2421
Email: damon at corigo.com
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