[odf-discuss] Fwd: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship
Position on CDF Makes No Sense
J David Eisenberg
catcode at catcode.com
Mon Nov 12 11:25:51 EST 2007
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Chris Puttick wrote:
> The Foundation as was is allegedly no more - their front page
> apparently had some message about their being wound-up, but the base
> URL now returns merely a 404. To be reborn the CDF Foundation?
FYI: I registered the names opendocumentfoundation.com and
opendocumentfoundation.org when they first started up. The names were
about to expire on 6 Nov 2007, and I renewed them. There's no server to
back them up, but I have the names, so they can't be acquired by anyone
with malicious intention.
> > Chris
>
> On 11/11/2007, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
> > What their strategies are? I think that is clear enough. You would like
> > them to have time to regroup and find better ways to attack ODF?
> >
> > Their current difficulties are self-inflicted. They have attacked not
> > only ODF, not only companies, but individuals. I have some information
> > that has drifted back to me that they are attacking individuals not only
> > in public but in emails privately to those they try to influence. This
> > email that wasn't supposed to be seen, allegedly, is the tip of the
> > iceberg.
> >
> > It's a disgusting smear campaign, frankly, and I hope they cut it out,
> > but whether they do or not, there is zero reason in my view to grant
> > them any room to regroup or to pretend that this should all be hidden.
> > That is how they've been doing so much damage, with private emails to
> > folks that they'd be upset to have made public, I expect, because their
> > effectiveness depends on no one contradicting the smear.
> >
> > For example, this story about W3c backing them up is not true. Period.
> >
> > PJ
> >
> > Ryan Singer wrote:
> > > PJ,
> > >
> > > Gary and his team are still figuring out where they are going and what
> > > there strategies are. Until they are ready for an announcement, it is
> > > not a discussion to do on a list with public archives.
> > >
> > > I understand that many people feel upset and betrayed by the new
> > > direction Gary has taken. I ask that everyone please remember his
> > > years of service as the only non-corporate contributer to the ODF TC.
> > > For years gary had a perfect attendance record, working hard to
> > > protect the communities interests. Please allow Gary and C. the
> > > benefit of a doubt, if only out o respect for everything he has
> > > contributed, for free, on a totally volunteer basis.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Singer
> > > Co-founder
> > > OpenDocument Fellowship
> > > 650-743-2785
> > >
> > > On Nov 10, 2007 6:46 AM, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
> > >> How about he apologizes and substantiates what he wrote?
> > >>
> > >> It's out there. He may not have meant it to be, but it is. And he is now
> > >> responsible to prove his allegations or withdraw them publicly in the
> > >> same venue where they were made.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ryan Singer wrote:
> > >>> I've just found out that gary meant to send this as a person reply to
> > >>> me, and forgot to check the headers to see I had CC'd the fellowship.
> > >>>
> > >>> Obviously, what Gary intended to write as a private communication to
> > >>> an old friend, in this time when he is getting all of this stressful
> > >>> negative press, is not fit for public or list consumption.
> > >>>
> > >>> Gary asked me to apologize about this and to say that it was not his
> > >>> intention to flame this list. Gary and his team are currently
> > >>> undergoing a very rough time and trying to reposition themselves for
> > >>> the future. Please, lets give the benefit of the doubt to sombody who
> > >>> has done so much work on our behalf.
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Ryan Singer
> > >>> Co-founder
> > >>> OpenDocument Fellowship
> > >>> 1-650-743-2785
> > >>>
> > >>> On Nov 9, 2007 11:50 PM, Gary Edwards <gary.edwards at da-vinci.us> wrote:
> > >>>> Hi Ryan,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris Lilley's comments are in direct opposition to those we received a week
> > >>>> ago from Doug Shepers, the head of the CDF Workgroup. doug however asked
> > >>>> that we not publicise his comments until Sir Timothy has had a chance to
> > >>>> weigh in. Our CDF support is solid. Even within Sun and IBM!!!! They've
> > >>>> been arguing for years that CDF is the way to go. Today IBM admitted to us
> > >>>> that ODF is a transitional fiel format only. They know that CDF is the
> > >>>> future, and have spent enormous resources positioning WebSphere, Lotus
> > >>>> Notes, and the Eclipse Community in that direction. ODF is a transitional
> > >>>> desktop play only.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The ODF mob has gone nuts trying to shut off the exits. The worst thing
> > >>>> they could have ever done is attack CDF. Watch. IBM admits that they lit
> > >>>> the fire, and now they can't control the tmob. The plan was to discredit us
> > >>>> personally. Now that CDF is under attack by the mob, IBM CALLED US, asking
> > >>>> for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was a two plus
> > >>>> hour phone conference this afternoon. I kid you not.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But hey, thanks for staying on top of this :)
> > >>>> ~ge~
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Nov 9, 2007 9:08 AM, Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Forwarded conversation
> > >>>>> Subject: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship Position on CDF
> > >>>> Makes No Sense
> > >>>>> ------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
> > >>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 8:21 AM
> > >>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Earlier in the week, many technology reporters were wrestling with what to
> > >>>>> make of the OpenDocument Foundation's announcement that it was abandoning
> > >>>>> support for ODF in favor of CDF, a W3C specification-in-process that few
> > >>>>> had ever heard of, and no one seemed to know much about. Those that did
> > >>>>> examine CDF were left puzzled trying to figure out how it could possibly
> > >>>>> function as an alternative to ODF.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> To find out the facts, I interviewed Chris Lilley, the W3C lead for the
> > >>>> CDF
> > >>>>> project, and his answer couldn't have been more clear: "The one thing I'd
> > >>>>> really want your readers to know is that CDF was not created to be, and
> > >>>>> isn't suitable for use as, an office format." In fact, it isn't even an
> > >>>>> format at all - although it has been matched for export purposes with
> > >>>>> another W3C specification, called WICD - but WICD is a non-editable format
> > >>>>> intended for viewing only. Moreover, no one from the Foundation has
> > >>>> joined
> > >>>>> W3C, nor explained to W3C what the Foundation's founders have in mind.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It is highly unfortunate that the founders of a tax exempt organization
> > >>>>> that solicited donations, "To support the community of volunteers in
> > >>>>> promoting, improving and providing user assistance for ODF and software
> > >>>>> designed to operate on data in this format," should publicly announce that
> > >>>>> it believes that ODF will fail. By endorsing a standard that has no
> > >>>>> rational relationship to office formats at all, they can only serve to
> > >>>>> confuse the marketplace and undermine the efforts of the global community
> > >>>>> they claimed to serve.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Further details are here:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20071109070012244
> > >>>>> As always, please let me know if you would like to be removed from this
> > >>>>> list.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Andrew Updegrove
> > >>>>> Gesmer Updegrove LLP
> > >>>>> 40 Broad Street
> > >>>>> Boston, Massachusetts 02109
> > >>>>> T: 617/350-6800
> > >>>>> F: 617/350-6878
> > >>>>> www.gesmer.com
> > >>>>> www.consortiuminfo.org
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *****************************************
> > >>>>> Any tax information or written tax advice contained herein (including any
> > >>>> attachments) is not intended to be and cannot be used by any taxpayer for
> > >>>> the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.
> > >>>> (The foregoing legend has been affixed pursuant to U.S. Treasury Regulations
> > >>>> governing tax practice.)
> > >>>>> Electronic mail from Gesmer Updegrove LLP, 40 Broad Street, Boston, MA
> > >>>> 02109. Voice: (617) 350-6800, Fax: (617) 350-6878. This communication is
> > >>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named as the
> > >>>> addressee. It may contain information which is privileged and/or
> > >>>> confidential under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or
> > >>>> such recipient's employee or agent, you are hereby notified that any
> > >>>> dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly
> > >>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
> > >>>> immediately notify Christopher O'Sullivan at (617) 350-6800 and notify the
> > >>>> sender by electronic mail. Please expunge this communication without making
> > >>>> any copies. Thank you for your cooperation.
> > >>>>> ----------
> > >>>>> From: Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:01 AM
> > >>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Andrew,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship != OpenDocument Foundation. The Fellowship
> > >>>>> does not agree with the new direction the foundation has taken. Your
> > >>>>> subject line mentions the fellowship, while the rest of your email is
> > >>>>> about the foundation. Please send out a correction.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Ryan Singer
> > >>>>> Co-founder
> > >>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
> > >>>>> 650-743-2785
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> _________________
> > >>>>> Ryan Singer
> > >>>>> ----------
> > >>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
> > >>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:02 AM
> > >>>>> To: Ryan.Singer at gmail.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> My sincere apologies - I'll change it immediately.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Andy
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "Ryan Singer"
> > >>>>> < ryan.singer at gmai
> > >>>>> l.com> To
> > >>>>> Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
> > >>>>> 11/09/2007 11:57 cc
> > >>>>> AM
> > >>>>> Subject
> > >>>>> Re: W3C Lead on CDF says
> > >>>>> Please respond to OpenDocument Fellowship Position on
> > >>>>> Ryan.Singer at gmail CDF Makes No Sense
> > >>>>> .com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> _________________
> > >>>>> Ryan Singer
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> odf-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
> > >>>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Gary Edwards
> > >>>> da Vinci Corp
> > >>>> Redwood City, CA USA 94063
> > >>>> (650) 365-0899
> > >>>> (650) 888-2268 c.
> > >>>> gary.edwards at da-Vinci.us
> > >>>> http://da-Vinci.us
> > >>>> http://OpenStack.blogspot.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > odf-discuss mailing list
> > odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
> > http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
J. David Eisenberg http://catcode.com/
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