[odf-discuss] Fwd: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship
Position on CDF Makes No Sense
Pamela Jones
pj at groklaw.net
Sun Nov 11 04:20:55 EST 2007
What their strategies are? I think that is clear enough. You would like
them to have time to regroup and find better ways to attack ODF?
Their current difficulties are self-inflicted. They have attacked not
only ODF, not only companies, but individuals. I have some information
that has drifted back to me that they are attacking individuals not only
in public but in emails privately to those they try to influence. This
email that wasn't supposed to be seen, allegedly, is the tip of the
iceberg.
It's a disgusting smear campaign, frankly, and I hope they cut it out,
but whether they do or not, there is zero reason in my view to grant
them any room to regroup or to pretend that this should all be hidden.
That is how they've been doing so much damage, with private emails to
folks that they'd be upset to have made public, I expect, because their
effectiveness depends on no one contradicting the smear.
For example, this story about W3c backing them up is not true. Period.
PJ
Ryan Singer wrote:
> PJ,
>
> Gary and his team are still figuring out where they are going and what
> there strategies are. Until they are ready for an announcement, it is
> not a discussion to do on a list with public archives.
>
> I understand that many people feel upset and betrayed by the new
> direction Gary has taken. I ask that everyone please remember his
> years of service as the only non-corporate contributer to the ODF TC.
> For years gary had a perfect attendance record, working hard to
> protect the communities interests. Please allow Gary and C. the
> benefit of a doubt, if only out o respect for everything he has
> contributed, for free, on a totally volunteer basis.
>
> --
> Ryan Singer
> Co-founder
> OpenDocument Fellowship
> 650-743-2785
>
> On Nov 10, 2007 6:46 AM, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
>> How about he apologizes and substantiates what he wrote?
>>
>> It's out there. He may not have meant it to be, but it is. And he is now
>> responsible to prove his allegations or withdraw them publicly in the
>> same venue where they were made.
>>
>>
>> Ryan Singer wrote:
>>> I've just found out that gary meant to send this as a person reply to
>>> me, and forgot to check the headers to see I had CC'd the fellowship.
>>>
>>> Obviously, what Gary intended to write as a private communication to
>>> an old friend, in this time when he is getting all of this stressful
>>> negative press, is not fit for public or list consumption.
>>>
>>> Gary asked me to apologize about this and to say that it was not his
>>> intention to flame this list. Gary and his team are currently
>>> undergoing a very rough time and trying to reposition themselves for
>>> the future. Please, lets give the benefit of the doubt to sombody who
>>> has done so much work on our behalf.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan Singer
>>> Co-founder
>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
>>> 1-650-743-2785
>>>
>>> On Nov 9, 2007 11:50 PM, Gary Edwards <gary.edwards at da-vinci.us> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ryan,
>>>>
>>>> Chris Lilley's comments are in direct opposition to those we received a week
>>>> ago from Doug Shepers, the head of the CDF Workgroup. doug however asked
>>>> that we not publicise his comments until Sir Timothy has had a chance to
>>>> weigh in. Our CDF support is solid. Even within Sun and IBM!!!! They've
>>>> been arguing for years that CDF is the way to go. Today IBM admitted to us
>>>> that ODF is a transitional fiel format only. They know that CDF is the
>>>> future, and have spent enormous resources positioning WebSphere, Lotus
>>>> Notes, and the Eclipse Community in that direction. ODF is a transitional
>>>> desktop play only.
>>>>
>>>> The ODF mob has gone nuts trying to shut off the exits. The worst thing
>>>> they could have ever done is attack CDF. Watch. IBM admits that they lit
>>>> the fire, and now they can't control the tmob. The plan was to discredit us
>>>> personally. Now that CDF is under attack by the mob, IBM CALLED US, asking
>>>> for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was a two plus
>>>> hour phone conference this afternoon. I kid you not.
>>>>
>>>> But hey, thanks for staying on top of this :)
>>>> ~ge~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 9, 2007 9:08 AM, Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Forwarded conversation
>>>>> Subject: W3C Lead on CDF says OpenDocument Fellowship Position on CDF
>>>> Makes No Sense
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 8:21 AM
>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Earlier in the week, many technology reporters were wrestling with what to
>>>>> make of the OpenDocument Foundation's announcement that it was abandoning
>>>>> support for ODF in favor of CDF, a W3C specification-in-process that few
>>>>> had ever heard of, and no one seemed to know much about. Those that did
>>>>> examine CDF were left puzzled trying to figure out how it could possibly
>>>>> function as an alternative to ODF.
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out the facts, I interviewed Chris Lilley, the W3C lead for the
>>>> CDF
>>>>> project, and his answer couldn't have been more clear: "The one thing I'd
>>>>> really want your readers to know is that CDF was not created to be, and
>>>>> isn't suitable for use as, an office format." In fact, it isn't even an
>>>>> format at all - although it has been matched for export purposes with
>>>>> another W3C specification, called WICD - but WICD is a non-editable format
>>>>> intended for viewing only. Moreover, no one from the Foundation has
>>>> joined
>>>>> W3C, nor explained to W3C what the Foundation's founders have in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is highly unfortunate that the founders of a tax exempt organization
>>>>> that solicited donations, "To support the community of volunteers in
>>>>> promoting, improving and providing user assistance for ODF and software
>>>>> designed to operate on data in this format," should publicly announce that
>>>>> it believes that ODF will fail. By endorsing a standard that has no
>>>>> rational relationship to office formats at all, they can only serve to
>>>>> confuse the marketplace and undermine the efforts of the global community
>>>>> they claimed to serve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further details are here:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20071109070012244
>>>>> As always, please let me know if you would like to be removed from this
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Updegrove
>>>>> Gesmer Updegrove LLP
>>>>> 40 Broad Street
>>>>> Boston, Massachusetts 02109
>>>>> T: 617/350-6800
>>>>> F: 617/350-6878
>>>>> www.gesmer.com
>>>>> www.consortiuminfo.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *****************************************
>>>>> Any tax information or written tax advice contained herein (including any
>>>> attachments) is not intended to be and cannot be used by any taxpayer for
>>>> the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.
>>>> (The foregoing legend has been affixed pursuant to U.S. Treasury Regulations
>>>> governing tax practice.)
>>>>> Electronic mail from Gesmer Updegrove LLP, 40 Broad Street, Boston, MA
>>>> 02109. Voice: (617) 350-6800, Fax: (617) 350-6878. This communication is
>>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named as the
>>>> addressee. It may contain information which is privileged and/or
>>>> confidential under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or
>>>> such recipient's employee or agent, you are hereby notified that any
>>>> dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly
>>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
>>>> immediately notify Christopher O'Sullivan at (617) 350-6800 and notify the
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>>>> any copies. Thank you for your cooperation.
>>>>> ----------
>>>>> From: Ryan Singer <ryan.singer at gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:01 AM
>>>>> To: Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship != OpenDocument Foundation. The Fellowship
>>>>> does not agree with the new direction the foundation has taken. Your
>>>>> subject line mentions the fellowship, while the rest of your email is
>>>>> about the foundation. Please send out a correction.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>> Co-founder
>>>>> OpenDocument Fellowship
>>>>> 650-743-2785
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>> ----------
>>>>> From: <Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com>
>>>>> Date: Nov 9, 2007 9:02 AM
>>>>> To: Ryan.Singer at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My sincere apologies - I'll change it immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ryan Singer"
>>>>> < ryan.singer at gmai
>>>>> l.com> To
>>>>> Andrew.Updegrove at gesmer.com
>>>>> 11/09/2007 11:57 cc
>>>>> AM
>>>>> Subject
>>>>> Re: W3C Lead on CDF says
>>>>> Please respond to OpenDocument Fellowship Position on
>>>>> Ryan.Singer at gmail CDF Makes No Sense
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> _________________
>>>>> Ryan Singer
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> odf-discuss mailing list
>>>>> odf-discuss at opendocumentfellowship.com
>>>>> http://lists.opendocumentfellowship.com/mailman/listinfo/odf-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gary Edwards
>>>> da Vinci Corp
>>>> Redwood City, CA USA 94063
>>>> (650) 365-0899
>>>> (650) 888-2268 c.
>>>> gary.edwards at da-Vinci.us
>>>> http://da-Vinci.us
>>>> http://OpenStack.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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