[odf-discuss] Response from a GNOME Foundation board director

Fri Nov 2 21:59:58 EDT 2007

I have some urgent family matters to deal with, but I will definitely come
back to this. For now, I'll simply indicate my disagreement with what you
have said. It would be a mistake to think that you have driven me from this
particular discussion because of my temporary silence.

Best regards,

No Garage Marbux

On 11/1/07, Pamela Jones <pj at groklaw.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> marbux wrote:
> >
> >
> > Novell is supposed to be a community member too, with 15 developers
> > working on OOo. Pam beats up on Novell about the patent part of the
> > Novell Linux deal, but if she's ever said a word about the OOXML part of
> > the deal, I missed it.
>
> You did miss it, and more than once. That's if you are being honest and
> not just wanting to attack anyone that supports ODF, without bothering
> to check the facts.
>
> I wrote an entire article all about it:
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061204130954610
>
> Groklaw also published FSFE Georg Greve's article about it he wrote for
> Groklaw, "Novell's Danaergeschenk"
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061208135621706
>
> I wrote about Novell and OOXML again here, "Searching for Openness in
> Microsoft's OOXML and Finding Contradictions":
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007011720521698
>
> Groklaw has repeatedly covered this issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> But the fact that Pam is willing to beat up on
> > Novell in regard to the patents part of the deal suggests that Novell is
> > not above her reproach. So why isn't she picking on Novell too when it
> > comes to OOXML support? I don't see any reason to believe that the fact
> > that Novell is a proprietary company is why Pamela claims not to care
> > what proprietary software companies do. She clearly does. Just not when
> > it comes to OOXML, apparently. Better to pick on the Gnome Foundation
> > and a FOSS developer who's following his own lights
>
> And you go on and on with your verifiably incorrect facts.
>
>
> > I realize I'm switching subjects somewhat, but IBM is the only company
> > that ever audited our source code and Rob Weir not only hosted one of
> > the demos but also tried very hard to be designated as the lead auditor
> > for IBM. But now he accuses of of having only vaporware and chides us
> > for not open sourcing our code yet?
> Exactly when do we mere mortals get to see your code?  You make strong
> assertions about it, but where is it?
>
>
> >
> > And where were all of you when we were trying to fix the interop warts
> > in ODF so enterprises could implement ODF painlessly? Far too many of
> > you were too busy posting on this list that what we had already done was
> > impossible to get your own hands dirty doing scutwork on the ODF TC.
>
> More insults. Has it not occurred to you three drama queens that you
> were wrong? That people seriously considered your proposals and decided
> they didn't agree with your approach?
>
>
> >
> > Well, surprise, surprise, you've heard today from two of the people most
> > responsible for ODF failing in Massachusetts, Rob Weir and Pam Jones,
>
> This is so over the top, it is hard to even respond.
>
> > both of whom are dedicated to the idea that high fidelity interop with
> > Microsoft Office would prolong the life of Office. To wit, their support
> > for mandatory rip out and replace legislation in four states that went
>
> Groklaw never supports any legislation. You know perfectly well that we
> avoid politics. We report what is happening, but Groklaw in its history
> has never taken any position on any legislation. The worst thing about
> this particular smear is that you know better. You and I couldn't see
> eye to eye about it, but because of our discussions, you know that my
> view was and is that  Groklaw doesn't take any political stand.  This is
> beneath you, marbux.
> >
> > Louis Guteriez told IBM that if ODF failed in Massachusetts it would
> > fail everywhere, and that he had the emails to prove it. IBM and Sun are
> > responsible for that failure, as is Pamela Jones for not covering what
> > Sun was doing on the TC. I know she knew about it because I sent her the
> > emails myself.  But just like back when I was still working with her,
> > Sun gets a pass. And both Sun and Novell get a pass on OOXML support.
>   "Waah! Sun's translator gets chosen by MA instead of ours!  Waah!
> OASIS doesn't choose our approach! Waah! PJ won't print my fantasies!"
>
> Grow up, you guys.  Or at least get your facts right.
>
> And as for not publishing what you were sending me, I certainly am glad
> I didn't, now that you have shown who you really are and what you are
> really all about.  I'd say I showed excellent editorial judgment.  But
> the bottom line is, I have no obligation to publish anything. Publish it
> yourself. I don't believe you get yours facts straight, so I don't trust
> a word you say or write any more. So obviously, I won't publish it.
>
>
>
> >
> > Sure, beat up on them. But don't worry about the foxes already in the
> > ODF henhouse. Kill all messengers who bring bad news and then no one
> > will dare bring you bad news. Just read Groklaw and Slashdot, at the
> > latter of which you can read about our supposed coding work to support
> > OOXML. Hey, maybe Pam can put that one in News Picks too, like she did
> > with that article from El Reg saying that we had stopped all work on da
> > Vinci. False and misleading information is so much more fun to read than
> > bad news. Gee, back when I was editing News Picks, I had firm orders
> > never to run an article that even smelled like it had erroneous
> > information in it. Pam always checks her facts before she publishes.
> > Right. Unless it says something bad about someone she has deemed guilty
> > of disloyalty to ODF, I guess.
>
> I've shown what I view as commendable restraint so far in *not* telling
> the world all about you guys.  But I would suggest that you and Gary
> review what constitutes libel and slander.
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>
>

-- 
BUCK "MARBUX" MARTIN
  Director of Legal Affairs
  OpenDocument Foundation
  Contact:
<http://www.opendocumentfoundation.us/contact.htm>
Charter member, Two Guys without a Garage,
<http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/10/cracks-in-foundation.html>
-- Universal Interop Now!
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