[odf-discuss] OOo OOXML filters

[Lars D. Noodén]

I should have written that it's time to refuse *new* proprietary formats, 
or other *new* formats that for any reason can be practically used only 
with one software program.  We're stuck with the .doc formats, documented 
or not.  We do have some choice when dealing with MOOX, even if a limited 
choice in some ways.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Daniel Carrera wrote:

> On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 01:30 -0500, Lars D. Noodén wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Alex Hudson wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> If OpenOffice.org opens an OXML and doesn't get it quite right, yes, a
>>> user might blame the application. I don't see what that has to do with
>>> OpenDocument, nor do I see why that is a worse situation than
>>> OpenOffice.org refusing to read the file at all.
>>
>> To paraphrase (hopefully accurately enough) Marco's links, it's time to
>> refuse proprietary formats, or formats that for any reason can be
>> practically used only with one software program.
>
> .doc is more proprietary than MOOX. Let's analyze this proposition
> using .doc. Do you feel that the net market share of OpenOffice.org will
> increase if they refuse to support the .doc format?

Not relevant.  The menagerie of .doc formats is already out there.  MOOX 
still is not in production.

[from the other message]
> A = People who must use ODF but would like to switch to OXML.
> B = People who must use OXML but would like to switch to ODF.
> 
> If A > B then easy conversion ODF<->OXML would harm ODF.
> If A < B then easy conversion ODF<->OXML would benefit ODF.
> 
> I believe A < B.

I do too.

> * How many people who don't use OOo will switch to OOo as a result?
> * How many people who do use OOo will switch away from it as a result?
> * Which group do you believe is larger?

The first one, but with some conditions.  Many are aware of the problems 
that each new .doc format brings.  Most MS users have experienced various 
inconveniences at least several times.  Few, however, are aware of ways 
out.

> I'm not denying the existence of the drawbacks. And I am sure that the
> first group is not empty. But I have no doubt that the second group is
> larger. Hence, dropping support for .doc would be a net harm for OOo.

I was unclear again.  I should have written that it's time to refuse *new* 
proprietary formats, or other *new* formats that for any reason can be 
practically used only with one software program.

> Is there a special clause that you feel applies to MOOX but not .doc ?

Yes.  Again, MOOX is not in production, the zoo of .doc formats is already 
chronic.

>> If OOo or other office packages were tuned to "save as MOOX" by default:
>
> I see that an OOo that is set to save as MOOX by default is worse than
> one that can merely read/write MOOX.

Very much so.

>> * employees and managers would see no use for ODF since that would
>> cultivate the belief that most MOOX documents could be mostly read most of
>> the time.
>
> I doubt that most employees or managers are even aware that .doc is a
> file format. Much less be aware of ODF or OXML. The group of people who
> would follow your reasoning is very small.

Most, even among, us are unaware that .doc is not a format but simple a 
file extension associated with a good dozen more or less incompatible, 
undocumented, binary formats.

> Weigh that against my argument about developer mind-share. If it's easy
> to convert between ODF and OXML, even developers who feel compelled to
> produce OXML will do so through ODF. As a result, ODF application
> support will increase.
>
>> * additional government requirements for open standards would be easier to
>> obstruct, stop or ignore, since the *appearance* of moving towards a
>> universal file format is being made.  Not that it MOOX will get beyond
>> appearances in that regard.
>
> Right now .doc appears to be a universal format.

It probably about time to work on that myth, too.  The perception that the 
.doc file extension stands for a single format hurts our position.

-Lars
Lars Noodén
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